Fearless feedback: How to transform feedback into opportunity for your NDIS business
The team at Kinora were joined by Angela Harvey from Supporting Potential to unpack feedback and how we can receive feedback to be successful service providers.
Topics covered include:
Why should service providers care about feedback at all?
Why feedback is worth the investment for service providers.
How different organisations approach and implement different feedback mechanisms.
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Fearless Feedback Impact Scorecard [by Supporting Potential]
Supporting Potential [website]
10 Things to do when it hits the fan: working with challenging clients and feedback.
Service Provider: Fearless Feedback - Your checklist for dealing with feedback [downloadable]
Quality & Safeguards Commission
Difficult Conversations Scripts for Providers [Downloadable]
[Community post] Technology & tools to lift your feedback game
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Hello everyone. Welcome to our Kinora webinar, Fearless Feedback. How to transform feedback into opportunity for your NDS business. Today we are extremely fortunate to be joined by Angela Harvey of Supporting Potential and I will introduce Angela properly in just a moment. My name is Yvette. I'm part of the team here at Kenora and I am also joined by Erin.
Who will be manning the chat.
She gonna pop up. There she is. Hi Erin. If you're already a member, you may already know us as coaches within the community.
Today we are talking about a really important aspect of delivering services in the NDS space, feedback. And rather than cringing, bracing or brick walling our way through it, embracing it as part of our commitment to continuous improvement and our clients.
There seems to be this fear of negative feedback that's holding us back from doing our best and building strong relationships with our clients. A lot of this can potentially come from providers being worried about the negative feed, how negative feedback might impact their reputation or their business. But the truth is, taking in all feedback, good and bad, is vitally important for us to remain compliant to the NDIS Code of Conduct. Following these guidelines though, isn't just about ticking boxes, it's about making sure we're delivering services ethically and professionally.
In this webinar, we're talking about common feedback challenges. We'll try to get to the bottom of where things go wrong and find out what can be done in a practical way for everyone to be better off. We can collectively create an environment where feedback is welcomed with open arms, where it's all about transparency, autonomy and showing compassion without the associated negative business impact.
This webinar will give you practical ways to integrate and utilise feedback mechanisms in your NDIS business. But before we get into that,
I'm very excited to introduce and speak with Angela Harvey of Supporting Potential. You're based in Newcastle, NSW, Angela. Yes, I am, but I spend a lot of time in Sydney too. Ohe yes, I bet you just down the road, let me just do your little bio. Which little bio? It's, I'm sure if I've cut it down, rather extensive. Angela is a leader of leaders with over 15 years experience in management positions in both government and not for, excuse me, not for profit organisations. Her skills and special interests span disability operations, complex project management, financial modelling and human resources. Angela ensures people truly understand why they are doing something as in her experience it shows that this is a compelling way to affect real change, which has led to her consulting in the NDS space. Thank you so much for being here Angela and welcome. Thank you very much for having me. I love talking about this stuff, so any opportunity.
I'm writing you amazing. Alright, cool. So before we launch into all of your knowledge and feedback today, I just want to give a brief background on Kenora for anyone who is brand new to the Kenora concept. If you're not already a member, Kenora is a safe and supportive online community where you're able to get support for your DS questions from us coaches and our community of thousands of other NDS participants, their families and support coordinators. You can also find fellow service providers on our Marketplace directory and within the Providers Only channel who are experts in their field.
If you're already a member, you may be aware that we record today's session to share the replay of the webinar and any resources that we talk about within the community. If you're not already a member, don't worry, we'll send you the replay at any of the resources direct to your inbox, but also please join. If you look to the top of your screens, there is a chat button. Please click on that. Now this was where you can introduce yourself, entering your comments and any questions as we go along. Aaron will be monitoring that chat for anything that comes up that she can address. Otherwise, we will
address all of the questions at the end of the webinar and any that we don't get to or we can't answer today, we will make sure to put it within the community and directly follow up with you via email.
Now I would like to make an acknowledgement of country
in the spirit of reconciliation. Canora acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of country throughout Australia. As I come to you from the land of the Warranty, people of the Coordination and wherever you are around Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respect to their elders, past, present and future. We acknowledge the culture, diversity, knowledge and experiences of First Nations people and celebrate their contributions and specifically those living with disability, their families, carers and individuals dedicating themselves to a career in supporting people with disability.If you are just joining us now, I will stop talking very soon. The aim of today's webinar is to step into the often feared but hugely necessary communication tool that is feedback between a service delivery organisation and its clients or staff and turn this discomfort into opportunity with radical acceptance driven by company mission. Today we'll explore while why feedback is so necessary and Angela will walk us through some practical steps that we can each integrate into our business as usual to ensure that feedback loses its tendency to destabilise and instead reinforces your business, empowers your participants, and fortifies the NDIS ecosystem as a whole. That's not a small task at all for today Hunt, is it? And, and we've got an hour to do it. Woo. Alright, cool. Before we jump into the content of today, Angela, is there anything that you would like to share or say as a result of what or why you're here today and what you would like to see as an outcome of today's webinar? So that supporting potential, we're really passionate about empowering people with disability to actually live a life that is akin and ordinary to those without disability. And a big part of that is giving feedback. A lot of us take for granted the fact that we can. If we're not happy with our meal or a hairdresser doesn't cut our hair the right way, we say, no, that's not what I wanted. And it's something that's uncomfortable, right? Even without a disability, it's uncomfortable for sure. So how do we actually bridge that gap for people with a disability that maybe haven't been told to give that feedback in the past or when they have been been allowed to? Yeah, totally. It gets reacted to badly. So I think we've all got a role to play here to to position feedback in a way that isn't uncomfortable anymore, but also acknowledging that people need to learn. Hmm. And that's called dip. Yeah, for sure. Deliver and receive. That's amazing. Yeah, for sure. Alright, cool. So why should we care? Like what is the importance? Like what? Where does feedback? Where's the foundation of feedback being important for the NDIS space? Look, and once again, historically, I think when it comes to feedback, and this is across the board in our modern society, people will tend to give feedback either when they're extremely satisfied and things have outdone their expectations, or on the other side where people are very, very dissatisfied and very cranky and you need to know about it. So as a culture, we generally are away from back in general. Yeah, Sorry. Oh, just giving feedback in general. Like, that's a massive gap in between. Yeah, exactly. We've got a massive chasm there. And I know myself, I've had those moments where I've gone, oh, I'm not happy about this, and it's not what I paid for. But you know what? It's, I'll just accept it. Build into that the fact that you actually rely on these services to get out of bed in the morning. You might rely on these services to get you to your job or to support you to take your medication so that you don't end up back in hospital. And when you're looking at those investments, that dividend, is it really worthwhile saying something? And I think when we've got to address that, when we treat feedback like it is a one off event or we only deal with complaints, that's when we start to back ourselves into a corner of making it particularly awkward. Whereas if it is that thing of constant two-way feedback, showing what we do with our feedback and reacting in a way that shows I'm listening as opposed to reacting in a way that says no, that's not a problem. I'm going to deflect and defend I think is the critical part here for service providers huge. So it's it's really from data. We've been taught that or not even taught, but it's more acceptable for, you know, there'd be good or bad, but it's more about continuation of service delivery, even just, um, adequate service delivery to ensure that there is a conversation about am I doing this? Is this exactly what you're looking and having that ongoing conversation? And it's just, rather than a formal, how was your experience today? That's right. It's that continuous improvement. It's the constant learning. And we know when we work with people, people can show up differently every day of the week. What you do today might be totally fine, but tomorrow it's gonna bug me. But if we can start to build up a a culture of encouraging feedback, encouraging people to share their thoughts on what they're thinking and feeling, we can actually start to then look into trends. So what works? What doesn't work, Particularly if you're working with people with, say, intellectual or psychosocial disability who have maybe struggled with communicating their wants and needs, you end up with complex behaviours. This type of feedback is going to be really, really critical to developing more active engagement strategies. Yeah, If you know straight off the bat when you're bringing in a new support worker, this person likes it when you do ABC and D, that's gonna be such a good way to start that person off for success. Rather than putting our support workers in and saying, look, here's a support plan, off you go and letting them learn. And look, I'm not saying that we need, we will always have that engagement. Where the person being supported and their support team get to know each other. Yes, build up trust, build up report. That is critical. You're never going to get active and honest feedback if you don't have trust and report. Yeah, but once we get there, you can actually speed that process up. Hmm, For sure you can show that you acknowledge their situation. You've empathise with the fact that they need your service. Hmm. But you are paid to do what it is they need in the way that they need it. Yes, and effectively it kind of curtails or cuts off any negative feedback before you even get to a point of of crisis. Because you are having that conversation all the way through before anything gets to a but I mean, and you're even creating the space for when things become a problem at the time, it can be expressed at the time. So it's not something that then goes further down the line and becomes a larger problem. Exactly. It's not a big deal. It's just those little bite sized things that I'm going to pass on. That's and the big issue is that organisations don't have ways to capture this information. So if we think about the way traditional service providers operate, we we've got incident reports. Yeah. We've got complaint forms, we've got ship notes.
So that's why there's still the chasm in between. That's right. So what is it and how do we actually collect it in the way that it's data? If I have my shift note and I write yes today I supported a vet and she told me that she is very particular about the way her bed is made and if I don't do hospital corners it's going to frustrate her.
OK, If I write that into a shift note as a narrative, yeah, we're going to lose it. OK, Our systems at the moment are not advanced enough to pick that up as a piece of feedback that we then need to share, right. So what we've got to think about is how do we actually pull out the wealth of knowledge that is actually probably already sitting within our support workers that have those genuine relationships and translate it into right. OK, so that sounds we'll get into that sort of stuff a bit further down. I'm going to do a bit more umbrella work as to why investing in this area of your business is worth the investment for service providers. I mean, I think a significant proportion of our service provider community within Kenora, Arsole Traders as well. So, I mean, we're not just talking to large organisations here, but uh, while some of the systematic, so some of the mechanisms to integrate feedback into your business, like the, the platform or the tool might be different, but the culture of welcoming feedback and the ways that you can encourage those conversations are still applicable across the board. Would you agree with that 100%? And look, a lot of it is coming down to a cultural lens. Do people feel safe to tell you if something is good, bad or indifferent? Yeah. And are they? Because we have to feel safe if we don't think that somebody's going to respond well to our feedback. And even if that might just be that they get really defensive or they just shut down. No, no, that's not a problem. And they move on. That's not going to support that person to come forward again next time. Yeah. So a lot of the tough that we're talking about, yes, you can build systems, you can have process, but a lot of it simply comes down to how am I showing up when I get feedback? How am I letting people know that I'm a safe place for them to come to. And I think too often we put out there, yes, we want feedback and complaints. Here's our form, Yeah, that you can submit. But once again, that's only pushing to the the extreme ends, either really good or the really bad. How do you actually show that you want feedback on each individual interaction, each individual engagement? And I guess that kind of leads into this, this next section that we have to talk about, which is registered providers all have to have some form of feedback mechanism within their business because it's an auditable item that is they need to show that that exists and it's used in its functional.
But obviously there is a difference between having those mechanisms because, I mean, an email contact form on your website and maybe a suggestion box at the front desk, say a facility that is very like, sure, you've ticked boxes, but does that necessarily encourage this culture of safety, as you've said? Like it doesn't.
No, it makes it up. Yeah, he makes it a thing. Yeah, it makes it a thing. And we don't like things. We just like to have normal, considered relationships with people where we can have to and fro. And I think what's important here is actually training people to be able to articulate what is feedback. Where have I actually received a piece of information that can change the way that we provide services moving forward, either good or bad. And too often I think our our frontline, the people that are engaging with the people receiving our services, they get it all the time. They see it even if the person perhaps is not Verbal feedback doesn't need to be. Verbal feedback doesn't need to be hey, I would like to give you feedback right now. Hmm, Feedback can just be, I don't like it when you hmm, or can you make sure you hmm,
feedback. Yeah.
And so it's identifying in that moment that you actually got given a bit of a gift. Hmm. That thing that told you I want you to do this or I want you to change the way you do that. That's a gift that's giving you the opportunity to do something better.
So, we're talking about conversations and we're talking about service providers, people delivering services to other people and the feel and this idea of feedback being something about the person themselves. So it's clearly it's, it's hard to hear those conversations or it's hard to kind of, um, accept that you might not be necessarily doing something to a person's liking. So, I mean, and then, I mean there's been in the news recently. I'm sure you're actually going to get to it where things like it was a joke or they, it went a little bit too far or, um, I was it, I didn't think that they would take it so seriously. I kind of general cultural responses to all circumstances where a participant might not have received the care or support that they needed. How do we, I mean, you've talked, talked about turning feedback into data that we can use for trends. Like how do we get personality or people's relationships in a way that we can use in business situations? Like that's a really hard, sorry, that was a hard question. It is, it's a very big tricky question. Yeah. And we've only got 4 minutes left, so we'll solve the world's problems. But yes, I think the first part of that is actually understanding that we are in a human relationship. It might be an employee employer relationship, but I think too often we go into the support environment thinking that they need us and that's where where the careers we know what's best and we're gonna do what they need. So that automatically puts an emphasis on the fact that anything they tell me, I get to philtre and I get to decide whether it's right, wrong or indifferent. Yeah. OK. So a big part of it is looking at our own motivations for why have we come into this sector? Totally. Do we see the people we're supporting as people with their own agency, their own autonomy, or do we see them as things that need our help? Yeah. And I think that's the very first foundation their people, they have their own autonomy. They know what it is they want. They just might communicate it in a slightly different way to what we're could be something that is not what you want or how you want to deliver it. So, and that's the thing was all like different things in life. So we think about something as basic as going to the hairdresser that we we all do quite frequently. Hmm, how I like the hairdresser. I don't like to to chat. I just want the hairdresser to get in, get it done and I want to get back out again. Whereas you might like the hairdresser to ask you about your day and give you the the head massage and all those other nice things, right? Yes. It. Well, if they're doing that to me, I'm like, come on, hurry it up. I'm not, I'm not liking this. Right? Yes. It's not to say that one way is right or wrong. Yeah, it's just to say that that person is not responding to that way and realistically the same way as you would change the way you're doing something if somebody in your home life told you, hey, I don't like it how you always leave your dirty cup in the sink and we're gonna have an argument about it. Yes. OK, that's feedback. I've heard that now depending on how cranky I wanna get and whether we're gonna have a fight will depend on whether I'm going to start to put my cup in the dishwasher.
But once again, it's a different dynamic. Yeah. I'm not being paid by the people in my house to do what they've asked me to do, but I am being paid by the people we are supporting. Yeah, to do what they need me to do in the way that resonates well with them. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So mental gymnastics required, but necessary for sure. Yeah. And look, I think this is the issue overall with feedback is that there's so many layers to it. Yeah, there's taking away the the fear, there's stopping that initial reaction because I think we all automatically, if somebody wants to tell us something that's not necessarily pleasing to the ear, we automatically put up a guard. Hmm. We automatically eat, even if it's something totally benign. Yeah, it's something that we don't even care about. Yeah, we still automatically go, oh, hang on, someone's just taken a a bit of a ***** in my armour there and I, I need to protect myself. Yeah. So we automatically put up our barriers, which then stops that person from ever wanting to give you feedback again, which then enforces silence, which then leads us to the path that I'm only going to come out and tell you when we've really got a problem. Yeah. And it's going to be a big problem. Yep. And then you were gonna have to invest significant time and resources into fixing said problem or you're going to lose my revenue. Yeah. Because that's the other side of it is I still may not tell you I've got a problem. Yeah. I'm just gonna vote with my feet. Yeah. And I'm going to leave your service. And you will never know what the issue is. And you'll keep doing that same thing over and over again. So I think if we flip the equation to see any form of feedback as not an attack, not a not somebody trying to upset you, but someone trying to actually make you better. Yeah. I want you to be better everyday. And I wanna see your organisation, your, your little sole trader business. I wanna see you succeed. So I'm going to give you the gift of my feedback to know how to be successful with me. Yeah, for sure. And how many successful would you might look different to how unsuccessful with somebody else? Yes, totally. That's the beauty of Human Services, as we get to work with so many different people and we get to to feel different roles for them, and that's part of the process as well. Yeah, totally huge. Um, in the notes that we've put together, um, leading into this webinar, so, um, you outlined a range of different organisations. So the difference between having feedback mechanisms and a culture that values and acts on feedback. You've categorised 3 different types of organisations. Do you remember that or do you would you like me to read?
So those that believe if their clients have something to say, they'll find a way to communicate it. In many businesses there is the rhetoric that the customer is always right. This is not always the case that we disability. We are quick to label feedback as behaviours of concern and overbearing parent or different service provider trying to pass the buck so as in an attitude for that organisation. So can you elaborate slightly on what that organisation might look like in terms of their feedback mechanisms that they have in place at the moment? And that what we see with those types of organisations is they are the ones that have the feedback mechanism on their website. So click here if you wish to give us feedback. They will have a policy that says we encourage and we value feedback, but you won't actually see change. So what they don't do is the next step. So they'll take your feedback. You'll probably get a letter acknowledging your feedback. So thank you very much for telling us that you had a problem. We will put it into our priority list and review in due course our policy to do XY and Z. And this is what we. Yeah, here's the rote answer. Yeah. Here's the straightforward. We train our staff, we do X, we do Y. Yeah, they don't pull back the cover. They don't actually wanna get into it and go, alright, what's the root cause here of what this person saying? I know. And look, I think the thing with even those service providers is they know they're not perfect. We're in a human service. You will never deliver perfection. Yeah, totally. They know they're not perfect. They know that there's room to improve, but it's that thing of prioritising this piece of feedback. Yeah, versus everything else that I've got going on. Hmm. But the issue is if once again, if you're only dealing with feedback when it comes through one of those formal mechanisms, you've already got a problem. Yeah. You are not really doing continuous improvement. Continuous improvement is small bite size change based on different types of inputs. Yeah, OK. So in the next step that you've is an organisation with policies that say we encourage feedback may have easy read or translated versions of their feedback policies. They have a defined process which includes providing responses and asking the person providing the feedback what they want to happen. They also might conduct feedback surveys with their stakeholders and stuff. So that's kind of the next level in terms of that. But then those organisations take an active step to to try and go out and seek feedback. So it might be that we're going to email our stakeholders, but once again, it's still a relatively rigid way of providing feedback. So surveys are a point in time. Having a conversation is a point in time. I'm only going to give you the information that comes top of mind right now, OK? So it is a very filtered view, as opposed to the next step, which is the organisations that are actively encouraging Tell me everything, yeah, I wanna know the good, the bad, and I'm going to capture it. So I'm actually gonna write it down. I'm then going to look at, OK, what do I do with this? Is this just a little piece of information that I can share with the team to say, hey, have that really likes it when you everybody start to try to do this? Yeah. Is it something a little bit more systemic? Do we maybe need to go in and change a policy or procedure because it's now outdated and it's not creating the value that we thought it would. But you can see the cause and effect. You can see that this information has been taken seriously. It's gone into the mix and it's been considered as part of our broader strategies
in the material that you provided prior. I just thought it was really interesting because in that, that the best practise situation, um, these, these organisations as an example, you gave provide free training to their participants on what their rights are, what they should expect from the service and what they can do if they want to talk about any of these things. So they essentially these organisations take their participants through what to expect and what what the mechanisms are not that they actually have to go and find them, but they essentially kind of walk them through each. And this is how you can provide us with each and every time, which is they've, you're essentially providing the information or the guidance how to give feedback from the get go. And I think that's a really important part because a lot of people, particularly if they do have more profound disability or they're living in still environments, those types of things, they've never had the opportunity before and they don't necessarily know what their rights are. So I don't have the privilege time and time again to go into organisations and and talk mostly still participants, but actually go through and do a process with them where we try to educate them. We try to say this is what you should actually really be expecting from your service provider. This is the bare minimum and this is what you can do if you don't like it. And I guarantee you when we get to things like confidentiality, every session that I've run, I will have somebody in the group turn around to me and go. You mean they don't have to tell my mum?
And it's just something that I'm like, no, you're a grown person, of course we don't have to tell your mum. OHP. And you can see the change in this person. So something as simple as a grown adult having privacy and confidentiality, if you don't know that, that's something that you should expect, Hmm. How are you going to know to make a complaint when it doesn't happen? And then you've also taken that extra step to make that participant feel safe and like that you're trustworthy because they know that it is that circle of, of trust. So you can tell us things. You can tell us things. Yeah. And we're going to deal with it in a way that is positive and proactive.
Supporting Potentials actually recently just launched a survey. So we're going around to different cell locations and anybody who's part of the Kenora community that runs SIL homes, we're happy to come out and see you. One of our team members, Robbie, he has intellectual disability, He's been previously incarcerated and he's now living in a cell home and he's big life ambition is to support other people that are like him to turn their lives around. So he really wants to be a peer advocate.
Um, what we've tried to do is I think that that people living in still at the moment don't actually know what they should be expecting from their service provider. And once again, if you don't know what to expect, you're definitely not going to be giving feedback. Yeah. And so Robbie's going around and talking to people who live in several homes and he's doing a survey. So I've given him the tools in the back end and we've done some training with him where he can actually go and have a proper conversation. It's not a survey in that I'm going to ask you a question. It's very stagnant. He's going around and he's just talking to people, try and gauge A level of their understanding. Yeah. What is self? How do I make a choice about myself? Provider, how do I give feedback if something's not right? Yeah. And what we're seeing so far in the data is the vast majority of people, if something doesn't feel right, we'll go tell somebody else. So I'll tell my mum or I'll tell my support coordinator once again with Mr really valuable opportunity there to take immediate corrective action.
It's just an in terms of the comfort of the participant, like that's their automatic go to as opposed to speaking to someone that can make that change straight away. Exactly. Like if you're providing support to me and I don't like the way you're doing something and I say stop doing it like that, you can make the change straight away. Hmm. Yeah, if you're open to my feedback. Yeah, the issue is if what happens when you're not open to my feedback? What happens if I'm scared that you're going to react badly?
I'm not gonna run that risk, am I? I'm just gonna stay quiet and then I'll go tell mom or I'll go tell my support coordinator and we can go all the way around the world. Yeah. For something that could have been fixed really quickly and really easily, for something that could just be I wanted my toast to be tented when you came out of the toaster rather than of being flat on the plate, sort of like it could be. I mean, and then it turns into, And this is the thing, Mike. So I've done investigations for probably about a decade now in quality and safeguarding
And whenever there's an issue, so whenever there's been quite a complex complaint or a significant incident, it's never resulted one thing. There's always been multiple lead up factors that in and of themselves, each are very, very tiny. Yeah. But then they compound and they snowball and all of a sudden we've got this really big problem that could have just started from no, I wanna make those flat on the the plate. I don't like how you cut it. Yeah, yeah,
um, cool. So then we, we also then come into the, the emotion part. So the next question that I've got is, so we've created a space where our clients and staff feel they're safe to share their authentic feedback on a regular basis throughout their service being provided to them without fear of repercussions. What's the best way for an organisation to respond to feedback, good and bad? How can we? How? How is the best way to do it?
Look, I think this starts with our leaders. Hmm. So as leaders, we have to model what it takes to actually receive feedback. What does it mean to feel vulnerable in that moment and respond in a way that is looking to understand, not looking to defend. So if we're trying to defend ourselves, that's only coming from a place of ego, a place of trying to prove that I'm right and you're wrong. That's the 1st way that you're gonna shut down any form of further feedback. Whereas if I really try and understand, OK, you're telling me you want your toast this way, why is that important to you? Because it obviously is important to you. If you've brought it up, it means something. Now, I might be putting my lens over that and going, look, it really doesn't matter. Yeah, take your damn toast. There could also be a whole lot of emotion involved in the way that it's expressed as well. So like being able to see emotion for what it is as opposed to the actual message being delivered. And that I've cut your toes, Chrome, and you throw the plate at the wall. Yeah. And instead of that being something that I go, OK, there's feedback in that something happened there that wasn't quite right. Yeah. I label it as a behaviour of concern and we put it into the system, and it's just about being a bit cranky again. Yeah. Huh. Well, no. Well, that tried to tell me something and it's my job has her paid supports to help her get the most ordinary life that she can and achieve her goals. It's my job to actually work out what a what, what happened, What was it?
Yes, so, yes, so we kind of come so listen actively. So how it's being expressed, expressed and then seeking clarification in terms of like what actually was the issue there exactly? And is that real seeking open ended questions are your friend here? Yeah, tell me more about that. I'm trying to understand. Can you please give me a little bit more insight about maybe another time that has happened? Yes. What would you like to see happen instead? Yeah. And then there at that moment, in the same way that when you're first receiving feedback and ego gets in the way, the next step of acknowledging and validating that what they're feeling and what they want in that particular time might not be what you're doing or what you think is important, but it's still, you know. Yeah. You don't have to agree with it. Yes, exactly. Don't have to. Oh, my God, yes. That's totally valid feedback, and we're gonna change everything that we do because you've told me that that doesn't work. OK, That's not what we need here, and that's not what validation is. Validation is acknowledging that.
Thank you for sharing that with me. Yeah, I appreciate that you trusted me to tell me. Yeah. It doesn't say don't sign up to promises you can't deliver because that is the worst thing you can do to build trust and report. If I say Yep, OK, I'm gonna make sure that nobody in this organisation ever cuts your toast that way again, I am setting everybody up for failure. And then next time it does happen, you're even more upset because I've broken a promise.
So instead of it just being your toast strips cut wrong, you've now got two slides. Your toast was cut wrong, and somebody that you trusted has broken that trust. Yeah.
Then from there, reflection on the feedback in terms of what, what, what is something that you can actually change or what can you actually enact that is that will get a positive or at least a
a good outcome.
Look, I think sometimes it's a piece of feedback in and of itself isn't going to give you that answer. True. It's going to be looking at it from the broader collective. So do I have common themes here? Hmm. Do I have, um, and let's just keep following our toast example. Yeah. Do we have people that automatically just will go into a site and do things the same way as they care for their children, for example? That's how I provide care. So that's what you're gonna get. And I always cut my kids sandwiches on the diagonal.
So I'm gonna cut your toast on a diagonal.Or have we actually trained people to go in and and ask questions? And what is it that you like in your home? Yeah. Do we even have that culture across our business of this is their home? Yeah, this may be my workplace, but it's predominantly their home. And therefore I'm going into their space. I'm the one that needs to adapt. So it's about trying to pick up the different bread crumbs. What do they tell you?
And you may not get it right the first time, and that's OK. Yeah, Because I guarantee you people would far more likely appreciate you trying. Yeah, then getting that letter that goes, hey, cool, thanks. Um, we'll look into it. It's like there's either in a different language, like at least you you're attempting and they'll have a laugh at you, but then they'll go well done. And then they'll all like, thank you for acknowledging and trying. It changes the attitude between the two. Yes,
Erin, hi.
I sorry, I know we were keeping questions at the end, but I thought I'd just jump in with one. Now while we're on this topic, Lee has just posted a question asking is there a service I could use almost like professional supervision to help me unpack these scenarios calmly? So I thought that sort of goes really well with what you're saying about how do you make yourself stay calm when you're getting this feedback? Do you have any tips specifically about that or organisations that people could have to supervise them to build up those skills? Actually
t's a great business idea, Lee, thank you very much.
I mean, in the conversation that Angela and I have had in the lead up to this webinar, we've got a checklist of which is what we're actually going through at the moment. So we'll have the downloadable resource of how to actually go through receiving feedback and the steps involved for that. So that will be available after the webinar. But Angela, if you wanted to add anything, we've also got a little tool that you can use yourself to go through and and do your own assessment. So how well as as an organisation or as an individual sole trader and like currently approaching feedback, am I fearless in this or have I fallen to some of the default? Hey, people will tell me if there's a problem. Yeah. And so I think the first step of this is to really truly understand where am I at in the journey. And it is to understand you're not going to get it right every time. And you still even the best of us who have been trained in how you actively listen and take positive feedback. Like I myself got a mentor for many years where I would go and say this person said this to me and I said this back. And it would be that process of mentoring where you would get the where you were defending yourself then. Yeah, that wasn't productive to building a, a cohesive relationship.
So what is those individual moments like Lee said, Liam, happy if you wanna send me an email and we can have a chat. Um, but it's understanding where you're at now and it's being prepared to have those reflective moments yourself of maybe at the end of your day, looking back and going, OK, what information did I get today? That, and I always like to ask the question, what information did I get today? That surprised me because I think we can manipulate happy.
We can manipulate angry or frustrate bad, but what we really struggle with is that the surprise, what took you off guard and that's where your reactions and your emotions will come into play is when you are off the part. OK, so at least just come those moments and trying to decompress them. She's just or he or she. Sorry, Lee, I'm not sure my emotions will allow me to calmly reflect on those moments. So I mean, that is and that's, that's the first step. Lee is in the moment, particularly if you're just starting out on this journey, you may not respond in the best way. You may have an emotional response and that's OK. We are humans. We have to give yourself for being human.
Part of it is actually going back to someone. And look, this does garner a lot of respect as well, is going back and saying, hey, you said something to me yesterday that was really important. And I don't think I responded well. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Because once again, you're going in, you're showing vulnerability, that you're prepared to say I didn't do something great. I've acknowledged that. Can we try to go there again? And can I have the opportunity to to see if I can't correct it? Hmm. So think about yourselves in your own life.
If somebody came up to you and said, you know what, we were having a chat yesterday and I didn't show up as my best self. Hmm.
Are you gonna look at that person and go, yeah, you're right, you horrible, I never want to speak to you again. Again. Yeah. Or or are you gonna go OHT? Wow. OK, yeah, maybe you didn't.
Here's how we can start again. Yeah, totally. And never forget the value of an apology. Hmm. I'm sorry that I didn't show up as my best self yesterday because people really value a genuine apology. Hmm. It shows that you have actually had that process of reflection. Hmm. And sometimes sleep You do need the distance, you do need to be away from the the actual event.
Sometimes it's important, particularly if you do know you've had a very big emotional reaction. Hmm. Write it down. So even when you are angry, even when you are frustrated, write yourself a little note. And then when you're not so frustrated, you're not so angry, it's a little bit gone. Go back and read what you wrote right in the moment. Yeah. What are the things? Where have you been defensive? Where have you not taken the gift of feedback? What was it that actually elicited the emotion, exactly? And you may still
painted to talk it through with someone. And that's when mentoring and coaching can come in. Yeah, yeah. But you may be able to those little tips and tricks that you can do for yourself that might help you along the way as well. Everybody's at a different space with this, definitely. But I think that would be great coaching or general like professional development for everyone in the space anyway. Just having someone to debrief on those sorts of interactions and kind of have a sounding board as to how could this have gone a different way and this happened. And this is what I, my response was, how could a all like, I feel really bad about this situation. Like all of the different multiple feedback in and of itself too. So going up to somebody and saying, hey, can we just talk about this situation I had yesterday and I want you to help me so that I can fix it. That is feedback that is so important. And if we can get to a space where not only are we trying to elicit feedback from the people we're providing support to, but also appease our managers, we feel confident giving feedback up the line as well because we know it'll be openly accepted. That's how we all improve. So it's acknowledging that if people are going to spend that time to tell you something, and if you're specifically seeking it out, you value it. And we protect the things that we value. Yes, huge and all of these small shifts in culture and contributing to that positive environment. Yeah. And that they are all tiny shifts. And I think that's why we get scared of feedback because there isn't one single trigger that we can go, hey, if I do AB and C where I feed this feedback feedback organisation and everything's just going to be super duper smooth from now. Yeah, it's the tiny ways that we show up everyday. It's the acknowledging. Maybe it wasn't my best yesterday. It's the knowing yourself and when you are ready to go into those types of conversations. Yeah. If you're frustrated and you're angry, that's not the moment to go out to someone and say, hey, yeah, through the toast across the room yesterday morning. What's going on there? Yeah, totally. Pick your moment. Yeah, totally.
Stuff went Oh yeah, don't know for sure. Alright, so when we sorry you were gonna finish off something there?
No, no, no, no. Alright, that's gonna say in the lead up to this webinar you've been doing some creating some case studies on feedback mechanisms in companies within the NHS space with. Were there any findings that you have come across that were of particular interest that you wanted to share?
So what we're actually trying to do in the background is create a quality benchmark. Hmm. So we're trying to get organisations to shift away from the the single point in time surveys to collect and continuous repetitive small chunks of data.
So one of those feedback mechanisms that we've got at the moment is particularly for sale houses, we've got a tool whereby people that live in that home can scan a QR code and answer three really simple questions whenever they feel like it. So the questions are simply do you like being here? Do you feel respected?
Did you get help to do something? So we've intentionally kept them really short, sharp and simple. But by collecting that data repeatedly, we can start to build up a trend line. We can start to understand when something shifted in our service delivery, what caused that shift. We can then start to capture it a bit better and we can start to work out. OHP hang on, we've had staffing change over there. Maybe these staff are fabulous. What are they doing differently? How can we share those good stories? Yes. Or we put a new team leader in and maybe they're not jelling quite as well as they could. So we're seeing a downward dip. Hmm, Maybe we've changed a a process or we've implemented a new system and our staff just aren't happy.
And that's the other side to it as well is I think we underestimate how much power culture actually has. And so trying to preempt a downward turning culture. So we know we've got a lot of the lag indicators when it comes to our organisational culture. People will call in sick. You'll have higher rates of absenteeism. You'll have high staff turnover, the winging, the grabbing. It's not a good time for anyone to be in. Yeah. But what if you could get ahead of that so by asking regular routine feedback instead of a once a year. Do you like being employed here? And do we really? Yeah.
Do you feel well supported to do your job today? Yeah. And we can collect that as a one off tight, like let's face it, that's a tiny bit of someone's day to say yes or no to that question, but it's consistent subjective feedback. Exactly. And you can see where am I improving, you can then start to measure and see where you do. Just like, let's face it, how many of us have thrown good money at doing a fun team building activity because we want to improve our corporate culture?
Do we know if it works? Yeah, we do it. We leave, we go. Yeah, OK. That seems to be pretty good. Yeah.
Did it actually do anything for our culture? Who knows? Where's where's all this good culture coming from exactly? You're tracking those short, sharp questions. Yeah, on a regular, routine basis, you should see an increase. If you've done something specific, the data should then reflect that as opposed to, yeah, you could like you can look back, reflect and see what happened at that particular time.
Are all of this bottomed out? Their response is bottomed out. What happened then and go back and see. Yeah. And you can start to see when does it start to go down. So I'm sure we're all well familiar with the Leia Mackie case that was on 60 Minutes.
That's a service provider that actually has a really good reputation. They have invested heavily in their quality management system, OK, They've got lots of tools at their disposal.
The issue with that particular story was a house culture. At some point that house decided through no real formal mechanism, that this behaviour is now OK. This behaviour should now be tolerated and I think anybody who's seen that 60 minutes clip would be well across the fact that it's not OK. There is no way, shape or form that anybody should ever stand by and watch that type of behaviour. But something has shifted in that house. So one of those workers, she'd worked with Leanne for over 17 years now. I don't know the ends and outs of it. I'd love to investigate it, but did she always have that disrespect 17 years ago or did something start to creep in?
What changed there? Because you can have all of your satisfaction surveys and internal audits and policies and procedures and incident management systems.
At the end of the day, those types of behaviours are driven by culture and by what we've said is OK here. Yeah.
And so we need to really get in front of that and start to try and get some of those lead indicators, not wait until someone's had to come to us and say, hey, my daughter is not acting normally. I think there's something wrong. Yeah, we should actually know.
Yeah, there's something funny going on here. There's something not right.
Let's get to the bottom of it. And then in that particular case, in Leanne's case, it was repeated feedback from family. So it wasn't Even. So there w in the house and then there was repeated feedback from family. So exactly. And once again, it is that thing if you're not gonna necessarily see it. Yeah, if you go into a house you're not going to see, like, I know from being an investigator, being in senior leadership roles, I go into a SEAL house and it is perfect. Everybody's on their best behaviour. The house is beautifully clean.
I can also tell you that when I've popped up and announced, it maybe doesn't look exactly the same. So we need to be a little bit more subjective in how we're capturing our information because nobody's going to come out and openly say, Oh yeah, I thought I had COVID, so I did awful things. Hmm, it's just not gonna happen that way. So what are our indicators that we've got a culture that values the people that we're supporting and sees them as their own individuals with agency?
That just need a little bit of extra help in some certain areas. And ultimately, that's what it's all about, isn't it? And feedback is just one of the mechanisms that make sure that happens at the end of the day. Exactly. Once again, Leanne was giving feedback. Yeah. It just wasn't being listened to. It was her family interpreting that feedback and saying something's not wrong, right? Yeah. Her support team should have been getting that feedback,
have been reporting it back in, but I don't want to end on a negative. Then on a different note, look, there are some really amazing things organisations are doing out there at the moment to try and encourage people with disability to have a voice. As I said, the best, and I love doing it because it really leaves me feeling super empowered, is when we do that training with people with disability and we say this is what you should be expecting. This is what the United Nations Convention of Human Rights tells you is acceptable. If you're getting anything less than that, that's not OK anymore. Not OK. And it's only by empowering those individuals that are going to be in the circumstances every day. I can come in and I can have conversations and I can do an investigation. I can give you a report. That's not going to help the broader population. That might help in one particular instance. It's by empowering the people we support to know what they should expect and to know how to change it if they're not getting what they should expect. And every single person out there who works with a person with a disability has a role to share thatinformation. 100%, definitely a massively empowering and important role for for this space and the sector itself and for the people that we work with. Absolutely.
Aaron, I, I haven't seen anything else come up, but were there any other questions? I just wanted to confirm. I've realised that we are very nearly out of time. Almost at time, yes. No, there were no other questions in the chat. We did have one come through from a provider by the community though. You basically answered already Angela, but I'll just read out anyway because it might resonate with some providers. They said they're under resourced, overworked, they're doing the best that they can.
I don't really have time to worry about feedback, don't really want to hear about, you know, how bad of a job they're doing. We've only got a couple minutes, but what advice would you give to those people that are, you know, in those organisations that it's just hat's the last thing on their minds? Like how can they bring it back to this is really important? And look, I do really, I feel for service providers at the moment. There is a lot of provider bashing going on out there. And yes, there are some providers not doing the right thing, but the vast majority of providers I know are bending over backwards to try and make sure that they're doing a good job within the constraints that they've got. So please, I'm not having a shot at anybody here. I think that it's a really hard environment to work in. But what I would say is by flipping your mindset, trying to get ahead of some of this stuff, you're actually going to reduce your workload.
The it's a gift. Like exactly. It will make your life easier over the long term. And yeah, OK, it will take a, a dedicated effort and it'll probably be a little bit hard for the first couple of weeks. But if you can start to take action on some of these things, those big problems, the bushfires that are keeping you up at night and working into the boat, they will start to disappear. They will start to ease off and. And so that's what I'd basically say is by changing, you should actually make your life a little bit better. Yeah, small changes in the moment to prevent the bushfires. Yeah, for sure. Yes, yeah, I love Turkey said earlier about, you know, we all put our guard up straight away when it feels like we're getting negative feedback. But even just one quick thing you say to yourself in your mind, like you said, ask them a question rather than responding. Even something as simple as that in the moment can help you obviously get better and better as time goes on. And like you say, it'll make your life, your job so much easier down the line.
Yeah, definitely. It'll make you a provider of choice. People will talk. You will have a reputation as being a provider that listens, that are delivering the services that I want. Yeah, for sure. And look, we're not there in the NDIS yet, but eventually, yeah, those are the providers that are gonna rise to the top. Yeah. And the ones that say no, here's our pick list menu of the services you can get, and you get what you get, and you don't get upset. Hmm. Eventually they won't be around anymore. Yes, it's done amazing.
Thank you, Erin and thank you Angela. I,
I think we've made it to the end of our webinar today.
Thank you for having me. You, you are, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you. What an incredible conversation. And I just want to say to you and to everyone that's attended today or watching the replay, the conversation doesn't need to end here. We're going to put the replay of today's session plus the resources that we've spoken about. So Angela and supporting Potentials feel this feedback impact questionnaire so you can get a barometer of where your company or organisation are sitting right now when it comes to feedback and some actionable points of what to do to improve your feedback mechanisms. There will be the feedback checklist, what to do in the moment, how to deal with feedback and any of the other resources, all of the other resources that we've produced in the Kenora community over the last few weeks that they will all be there. I'm ready for you to utilise, um, amazing. I just wanted to close out and say thank you all for coming today. We'll send out all of those resources and this replay in an email and everything else into the community.
I'm a vet that was Aaron before and this is Angela, uh, from supporting potential. We hope to see you all in Kenora soon. Thank you very much. Have an amazing day. Thank you, Angela.
Bye.
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